Interviewing 'The Penguin' showrunner Lauren LeFranc for KCRW's The Business

LeFranc dishes on working with the amazing Colin Farrell, why Batman isn't a superhero and how writing an "a--hole" like Penguin is freeing.

It was a good natured disagreement between two admitted comic book geeks.

But I couldn’t believe my ears when The Penguin showrunner Lauren LeFranc said The Batman — the world’s greatest detective and leader of the Justice League — wasn’t a superhero. Her words came during a wonderful longform interview I conducted with LeFranc for KCRW’s The Business, the incisive program hosted by entertainment journalism superhero Kim Masters.

“Batman’s not a superhero…he’s a man who chooses to don a suit,” says LeFranc, noting all the characters in Matt Reeves’ film The Batman, which inspired the series and takes place in the same fictional universe, are in the process of becoming the figures comic book fans love. “He doesn’t have superpowers…so he’s different in that regard and he’s always been.”

That’s a debate which could fill an entire session at Comic Con — that also means towering figures like Tony Stark/Iron Man and The Falcon/Sam Wilson aren’t superheroes either, because their exploits are fueled by cool machines and not physical powers.

But it was also a wonderful example of the bold spirit LeFranc has brought to a series which took advantage of Farrell’s amazing performance in The Batman and used it to invent an entirely new backstory for a long beloved character.

Comic book-based TV shows these days are mostly succeeding by avoiding guys in flashy outfits in loads of computer-generated fistfights. Instead, LeFranc’s approach, which is grounded, more realistic and mostly a crime drama — think The Sopranos-meets-The Godfather in Gotham City — reaches TV viewers sick of bad superhero stories and excited fans who love The Penguin and were blown away by Farrell’s amazingly transformative work playing him.

LeFranc talks about all that and more in this interview, which starts about 7 minutes into the show. If you like it, then click here to see even more of my interviews for The Business, including Roy Wood Jr. on his new CNN show Have I Got News for You, Neil Brennan on whether the public expects too much wisdom from standup comics and Gary Oldman on playing the coolest slob on TV in his new Apple TV+ series, Slow Horses.